Military Stuff

Usually regardless of intentions, intervention of any sort is usually the wrong choice. However, if you don't act, you are also played as weak. There also is no right choice.

that's something obama got right about them. he has some quote about how he had nothing but bad options when dealing with syria.
 
pop quiz! who said this earlier today:

“I really believe we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them.”
 
pop quiz! who said this earlier today:

“I really believe we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them.”

Ms. Clinton
 
obama never directed his strikes towards syrian government targets. and russia is assad's ally.

Obama asked Congress for approval to attack Assad in August of 2013. The Senate probably would have approved, the House Republicans were opposed. The approval bill never got a vote because Assad agreed to destroy his chemical weapons.

Russia is Assad's ally, which makes this whole thing confusing. Why would Assad use chemical weapons now that he has Russia openly supporting him and Trump willing to let him stay in power?
 
obama never directed his strikes towards syrian government targets. and russia is assad's ally.
You're implying I said something different than what I said. He directed airstrikes in Libya. And through a monitoring program with Russia, there was a dismantling of Syrian chemical weapons. That doesn't dispute a Syrian/ Russian alliance.
 
You're implying I said something different than what I said. He directed airstrikes in Libya. And through a monitoring program with Russia, there was a dismantling of Syrian chemical weapons. That doesn't dispute a Syrian/ Russian alliance.

you're right. i misread your original post where you clearly said libya.
 
we were supposed to do this years ago with the whole "red line" thing.
Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump
Let the Arab League take care of Syria. Why are these rich Arab countries not paying us for the tremendous cost of such an attack?
8:25 AM - 29 Aug 2013

Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump
The President must get Congressional approval before attacking Syria-big mistake if he does not!
7:02 PM - 30 Aug 2013

Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump
AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA - IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!
9:20 AM - 5 Sep 2013

Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump
President Obama, do not attack Syria. There is no upside and tremendous downside. Save your "powder" for another (and more important) day!
9:21 AM - 7 Sep 2013
 
so are you saying that it is wrong for someone to change an opinion after 4 years?
 
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so you are saying that it is wrong for someone to change an opinion after 4 years?
Really? You're gonna play naive? As someone who was not responsible for anything, he (Trump) was free to publicly knee-jerk oppose everything the current president did. It had nothing to do with what his personal beliefs were.
were you upset when hillary changed her stance on gay marriage?
Her opinion never changed, only her assessment of whether the country was ready to support it.
 
Let me ask you this: for all of his life, Trump has been pro-choice, because that's what he really believes. So would you say his current stance is a change of opinion? Of course not, he's just saying what his supporters want to hear.
 
we're going to get in trouble. please don't close my military thread!

so trump was wrong when he tweeted 4 years ago and he's also wrong now? it sounds like you just want to dislike him him no matter what he does.

and he has not only said he's opposed to abortion, he's already acted on it with that overseas funding stuff. (side note, i don't really care about abortion one way or the other. i'm pro choice but i think it should just be up to the broads to decide.)


Her opinion never changed, only her assessment of whether the country was ready to support it.

that's a leap. even if she said that how can you possibly believe it? she said, "I believe marriage is not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman." so either that was a lie because 'the nation wasn't ready' or she's lying now with her new stance. or she simply changed her mind. my point is, i don't fault people for changing their mind. i thought the flip flop thing with kerry was silly and i still think it's silly now.
 
we're going to get in trouble. please don't close my military thread!
Don't bring Hillary Clinton into the Military Stuff thread if you don't want to make it political.

I don't care what Hillary says or said. What Trump said in the past vs what he says now is only interesting because he won the election. If he had lost I could go back to not caring.

I don't like Presidents taking military action without Congressional approval. I bet Trump could get it if he asked. I'm not that upset that he didn't. I just don't like seeing the executive branch have that much power. It isn't the way it was designed to work.

None of this makes any sense, though. Why would Assad use chemical weapons now? How can that benefit his position?
 
we're going to get in trouble. please don't close my military thread!
so trump was wrong when he tweeted 4 years ago and he's also wrong now?
I don't want to get this thread shut-down either. I want to clarify what I said in the most civil way possible.

I never said the stuff in bold. This will be the 3rd time I'm making this point: people's opinions don't change. We're not talking about one's beliefs as a kid as opposed to adulthood. We're talking about fully mature adults.

People only give their honest opinion when there is no motivation to do otherwise. When Howard Stern asks an actor for the names of people they disliked working with, they rarely answer. Is that because they never disliked another actor? Or is it because it would be detrimental to be honest?

That's all I can say without getting into trouble.
 
I'm making this point: people's opinions don't change.

ok, good...i think we are moving away from specific politics now so i hopefully we are safe.

i think opinions do change. now this example can't be any more anecdotal but with the exception of a few issues, my opinions have drastically changed from 2012 to now. so much so it's even been surprising to me. and while i'm no shining example of maturity, i certainly wasn't a child at 29 nor am i now at 33. i consider myself a solidly average american and because of that i very much doubt this has only ever happened to me. that's why i struggle to understand why you are so fervent about opinions never changing.
 
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that's why i struggle to understand why you are so fervent about opinions never changing.
People can experience life-altering events, or epiphanies, or get exposed to a situation that changes their thinking. Priorities may change as they age.

But we're not talking about that. We're talking about politicians changing their public stance on an issue, where there's no evidence of any of the above, but overwhelming evidence of a political motive. See the difference?
 
with the exception of a few issues, my opinions have drastically changed from 2012 to now. so much so it's even been surprising to me.
Yes, and in discussing some of those, there seems to be evidence that the changes of opinion are fueled by some sort of misconceptions. I'd search for examples, but I don't have the time right now.
 
None of this makes any sense, though. Why would Assad use chemical weapons now? How can that benefit his position?

I don't think he thought Trump was concerned about him. And besides, there's not really a "now" to this debacle...Assad has never stopped using chemical weapons, or banned conventional weapons. This most recent incident just happened to get Trump's attention.

It was really an easy thing--you tell the Russians you're coming. The Russians tell the Syrians. All the good shit is moved. Missiles are launched. The Russians, who have some of the most advanced air defense systems in the world in Syria, don't shoot them down. Some stuff is blown up. Trump is happy. Syria and Russia feign outrage. The world goes on.
 
All this shows as well (in case Trump's cabinet didn't convince you) that Trump is the insider's insider. He's a man-baby but he's not going to be any different politically than the parade of internationalists before him.

After Syria strike, populist supporters abandon Trump at home and abroad - CNNPolitics.com

Trump doesn't want to be isolationist. He wants to be interventionist. He just has it in his head that he can do it better than Obama or Hillary. He thinks everything is a "deal," a game that he can win just because he's the one playing it.
 
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